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Putonghua-ization or Cantonization in Guangdong?
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Ian_Lee -

Has Guangdong been completely overwhelmed by Putonghua?

It seems so judged by the omnipresence of Putonghua speakers in Guangzhou.

But on the other hand, it seems that Cantonese has also standardized all dialects inside Guangdong
province. Most of the Hakka speakers who used to live in Dongguan and the hilly region as well as
the Chaozhouese speakers in eastern Guangdong, especially the younger generation, seem now all
know Cantonese to some degree.

In the long run, which language will be on the lead in Guangdong?



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Koneko -



Quote:

Chaozhouese

Also known as Teochew in Malaysia & Singapore.



Quote:

In the long run, which language will be on the lead in Guangdong?

Needless to say, it's going to be Mandarin. It's funny that we have the opposite situation in
Malaysia, people prefer to speak Cantonese in public despite they are capable to speak Mandarin,
this phenomenon is even more prevalent in Kuala Lumpur.

K.










Quest -

Cantonese is still pretty active, I don't know how long it can hold with the constant migrations.
~10Mil is a scary and big enough number, but in China the more the merrier.... I for one will
always refuse to speak Mandarin when I am in Guangzhou.










wannabeafreak -



Quote:

I for one will always refuse to speak Mandarin when I am in Guangzhou.

Thank God there are people like you. :

As I'll be in GZ for the next 4 days, I will refuse to use English.










pazu -

I found Cantonese still very prevalent in Guangzhou, but people there tend to switch to Putonghua
if they found out that you are an outsider, which gives people an impression that Cantonese is
diminishing.

But I do found the situation in Guangzhou quite confusing, sometimes I don't know what language to
start. People in Guangzhou don't expect everyone to speak Cantonese, that's why people from other
provinces don't really need to learn it. But in Hong Kong, every newcomer is expected to learn
some Cantonese if they plan to stay in HK for long, because HKer's Mandarin are just
incomprehensible.










pazu -

Quest, and I do agree with you, I never really want to use Mandarin when I know we can both speak
this language, there's almost a priority, first Cantonese, Mandarin comes second. That's why I
found the situation in Guangzhou can be a bit confusing sometimes, I don't know which language to
start. But one thing I do notice, many (but not all) security guards are from other provinces and
speak no Cantonese, and many just gave me a cold face when I asked for the directions in Cantonese.










atitarev -

It's interesting that Cantonese speakers are more proud of their dialect than other speakers, I
only once heard an opinion of a person from Guangzhou - don't learn Cantonese, learn Mandarin but
other dialect speakers don't have the same feelings.

Last week I had two encounters on the train home:

1) A Shanghai immigrant to Australia, he discouraged my curiosity in Wu. He said it was too hard
and not worth it.
2) Young Taiwanese tourists - I practiced my Mandarin with them, they said Taiwanese dialect was
dying and they didn't regret it.










studentyoung -



Quote:

People in Guangzhou don't expect everyone to speak Cantonese, that's why people from other
provinces don't really need to learn it.

Yes, you are right Pazu. People in Guangzhou don’t expect everyone to speak Cantonese, but
that’s not the reason for people from other provinces don’t really need to learn it. In fact
most people from other provinces just take Guangzhou as a place to work and earn some money, not a
place to settle down forever. Once they think they have earned enough money, as 30,000RMB, to
build a house or run a little shop in their home town, they will leave Guangzhou.



Quote:

But one thing I do notice, many (but not all) security guards are from other provinces and speak
no Cantonese, and many just gave me a cold face when I asked for the directions in Cantonese.

I feel sorry for your experience in Guangzhou, Pauz. I would like to explain on it. A lot of
outcomers 外地人 come to Guangzhou and take humble and low-paid jobs like security guards and
sweatshop workers. Social welfare system in China is base on the户口 “document of registered
residence” system, which means you can only receive the welfare from where your 户口 is. Of
course, the social welfare is different from place to place, city to city, base on the local
economic development. No doubt, China’s social welfare system is the main cause for the mobile
population from poor area to rich area. And the wrong population policy made by Chairman Mao years
ago is another main reason that makes the whole thing even worse. Because they have no 户口 in
Guangzhou, they can’t share the local welfare like local Cantonese. Humble jobs, low salary, no
social security, are the main reasons to make local Cantonese people look down upon them and make
them feel the hostility among local Cantonese. The worst of all is that these outcomers are
usually the main victims in all kinds of industrial accidents and back salary. In Guangzhou, you
can usually hear that many people try to commit suicide by jumping off the top of a building (or
at least threaten to do so) because of back pay or the lack of compansation after industrial
accidents, especially on the eve of Spring Festival.

I think I am lucky, because I am a local Cantonese in Guangzhou. I hope more and more local
Cantonese people can respect these outcomers or, at least, be kind to them, because their personal
freedom and dignity are same with the local people, no matter what a poor place they come from, no
matter how different their culture might be, and no matter how bad the social conditions and the
management of our government might be.

Sigh ~ ~!

Thanks!










pazu -

I'm going to open a small shop with a Thai friend in Tibet, he did ask me what language he should
learn, guess what? I told him to spend his time learning Mandarin Chinese, because Cantonese is
useless for him.

I am very proud of being able to speak Cantonese, well, of course, haha, but for a foreigner who
doesn't plan to stay in Hong Kong or Guangzhou or other Cantonese speaking areas for long, I see
no reason why he should spend his time to learn it except for some linguistic concern.

Mandarin is definitely more useful, but I spent some time to learn Thai before too. So...










grimacekid -

Well, i think in the long run, Cantonese will dominate in Guangdong province.

We are in the age of mass media, when the Chaozhouese or Hakka people bought a TV in their village
and watched with their countrymen, the foreign culture had intruded. It is inevitable that they
are learning the most popular language in the province when they are watching the programm.

And when the young go out from their countryside to the big city like Guangzhou to receive
education or find a job, they need to communicate with the ppl there that speak Cantonese and
that's why the young Chaozhouese can speak good cantonese rather than the olds.

As for Mandarine, Cantonese is easier to learn for the people who speak Chaozhou language or Hakka
becuase more or less they share some similarities. And it is also a culture thing. My tutor who
from the very north of China used to ask us why we Cantonese didn't like to watch CCTV (China
Central Television), the responds of us were:
1. The old people cannot understand Mandarine.
2. CCTV is boring and too serious. (Guangdong people is much more open than the people from other
provinces)
3. HK channel and the local Television are more intersting and close to people's life.

For some native Cantonese, Mandarine is just the language that they have to learn, like it is
compulsory to give lecture in school in Mandarine. It is just for schooling.

Even though my parent is from Hunan and we speak Mandarine at home, i was born in Guangdong and
educated here. I feel that Cantonese is my mother language, i prefer to use Cantonese rather than
Mandarine, like i can express myself better in Cantonese and i can make funny jokes in Cantonese
but i can't do the same level in Mandarine.

Hello studentyoung!

I feel the same way as you do and i completely agree with u. The situation of the workers from
other province in Guangdong are quite sad, isn't it?












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